Playing Dress-Up
Nov. 14th, 2012 11:13 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rowynSo there's this thing, where people (generally men) complain about women who are not real geeks dressing in skimpy outfits in order to get attention from the real male geeks who are so starved for female companionship that they'll take anything, including these not-actually-attractive scantily-clad women.
...
You'll note that this manages to insult all involved parties at once: the women for being unattractive and slutty, the men for being desperate and manipulable. Perhaps that's intentional; the point of many rants is to make the ranter feel smugly superior, and nothing says 'superiority' like 'all y'all are inferior to me', right?
Here, have a bunch of links.
Back in July: "Booth babes need not apply", a blog post on CNN.com about how female cosplayers are ruining conventions.
Friday/Saturday: "You're not a nerd; you're a whore who found glasses" (link includes original post plus a bunch of back and forth between the original poster and one of the people who objected to it.
From Monday: Tony Harris vs cosplayers. (Reproduced in this article for non-Facebook link).
And some antidotes to all that:
John Scalzi's July response to "Booth babes need not apply": "Who Gets To Be a Geek? Anyone Who Wants to Be".
Christopher Wright's response to Tony Harris
Ursula Vernon's response to the Dirk Manning & Tony Harris kerfluffle
My first thought about all this was "I have nothing to add". Between Scalzi and Wright and Vernon, that's pretty much all the important stuff. Geekdom does not need gatekeepers and women get to dress how they want and people not them do not get a say in the matter. 'nuf said.
And it should be.
But.
The thing is, for all their able defense, none of these people are not-very-attractive-women who wear skimpy outfits to get attention from nerds.
And I am.
And maybe I need to speak for myself.
To begin: I like the way I look. I like my long hair and my large chest and my hourglass figure and my short legs and long neck and my smile with one crooked tooth and my bumpy nose and the silver-grey strands shot through my mousey-brown hair. This is me. I like me. I am not a supermodel or a movie star. I am not thin or gorgeous. I am 42 and short and overweight and I am generally OK with that. I still like the way I look. I like the way I look in fancy evening gowns and lingerie and leather bodysuits and even spandex.
I go to cons to play dress-up. I don't even cosplay. I play dress-up just like little girls do, with random clothing tossed together and declared a pretty pretty princess and strutted about in for a little while and then changed in favor of something else. Sometimes I wear outfits that expose no skin except my face. More often I wear skimpy things.
I play dress-up for attention. I want people* to look at me, to admire my costume and to talk to me about -- whatever, really. Nerd things. I do not go to cons because it is easy to get the attention of male nerds but because these are my people. I am at home among sf&f fans and gamers and furries. Almost all of my leisure time is devoted to nerd culture: playing video games, reading sf&f, writing fantasy, watching sf&f films and TV shows, RPing furries, reading blogs by others in the fandom (often not about fannish interests, mind), etc.
* In my experience, wearing pretty and/or skimpy outfits works perfectly well for getting positive attention from women too.
So I shouldn't take it personally. If someone is talking about women who are contemptuous of nerd culture while pandering to it, that's so not me.
And yet.
It still bothers me, personally. Even aside from the abstract dislike of judging people by what they wear or what their perceived true interests are.
I am reminded of all those feminists who get mad at men for being defensive when they talk about bad behaviors: "If you're not doing this, we're not talking about you!" Am I doing the same thing, in taking this as a personal attack?
And yet.
I am a not-very-attractive woman who was walking around in a leather bodysuit and fishnets on Friday night, having a wonderful time, wondering "why has it been so long since I did this?"
And now I remember why.
Christopher Wright wrote about high school in his rant, and I understand why. Because the diatribe against people like me for wearing skimpy outfits and at the men who enjoy it is just as stupid as all the insults I heard in high school. And just like in high school, I know I should not care what these people think. And just like in high school, knowing that does not really help.
The trouble isn't the one guy I've never met complaining about it, or the thousands of guys I've never met going 'right ON!' It's that nagging worry, from all those early years of being an ugly duckling, that this is what many people I do know think of me, only they have the common decency not to say it.
*sigh*
But that is my problem.
Mostly, I think that it's fine if people don't like dressing up and don't like it when other people do. Personally, I don't like football or drinking or gardening or any of a thousand other hobbies. Other people don't need to like mine. But it would be awfully nice if they could let me enjoy mine in peace.
...
You'll note that this manages to insult all involved parties at once: the women for being unattractive and slutty, the men for being desperate and manipulable. Perhaps that's intentional; the point of many rants is to make the ranter feel smugly superior, and nothing says 'superiority' like 'all y'all are inferior to me', right?
Here, have a bunch of links.
Back in July: "Booth babes need not apply", a blog post on CNN.com about how female cosplayers are ruining conventions.
Friday/Saturday: "You're not a nerd; you're a whore who found glasses" (link includes original post plus a bunch of back and forth between the original poster and one of the people who objected to it.
From Monday: Tony Harris vs cosplayers. (Reproduced in this article for non-Facebook link).
And some antidotes to all that:
John Scalzi's July response to "Booth babes need not apply": "Who Gets To Be a Geek? Anyone Who Wants to Be".
Christopher Wright's response to Tony Harris
Ursula Vernon's response to the Dirk Manning & Tony Harris kerfluffle
My first thought about all this was "I have nothing to add". Between Scalzi and Wright and Vernon, that's pretty much all the important stuff. Geekdom does not need gatekeepers and women get to dress how they want and people not them do not get a say in the matter. 'nuf said.
And it should be.
But.
The thing is, for all their able defense, none of these people are not-very-attractive-women who wear skimpy outfits to get attention from nerds.
And I am.
And maybe I need to speak for myself.
To begin: I like the way I look. I like my long hair and my large chest and my hourglass figure and my short legs and long neck and my smile with one crooked tooth and my bumpy nose and the silver-grey strands shot through my mousey-brown hair. This is me. I like me. I am not a supermodel or a movie star. I am not thin or gorgeous. I am 42 and short and overweight and I am generally OK with that. I still like the way I look. I like the way I look in fancy evening gowns and lingerie and leather bodysuits and even spandex.
I go to cons to play dress-up. I don't even cosplay. I play dress-up just like little girls do, with random clothing tossed together and declared a pretty pretty princess and strutted about in for a little while and then changed in favor of something else. Sometimes I wear outfits that expose no skin except my face. More often I wear skimpy things.
I play dress-up for attention. I want people* to look at me, to admire my costume and to talk to me about -- whatever, really. Nerd things. I do not go to cons because it is easy to get the attention of male nerds but because these are my people. I am at home among sf&f fans and gamers and furries. Almost all of my leisure time is devoted to nerd culture: playing video games, reading sf&f, writing fantasy, watching sf&f films and TV shows, RPing furries, reading blogs by others in the fandom (often not about fannish interests, mind), etc.
* In my experience, wearing pretty and/or skimpy outfits works perfectly well for getting positive attention from women too.
So I shouldn't take it personally. If someone is talking about women who are contemptuous of nerd culture while pandering to it, that's so not me.
And yet.
It still bothers me, personally. Even aside from the abstract dislike of judging people by what they wear or what their perceived true interests are.
I am reminded of all those feminists who get mad at men for being defensive when they talk about bad behaviors: "If you're not doing this, we're not talking about you!" Am I doing the same thing, in taking this as a personal attack?
And yet.
I am a not-very-attractive woman who was walking around in a leather bodysuit and fishnets on Friday night, having a wonderful time, wondering "why has it been so long since I did this?"
And now I remember why.
Christopher Wright wrote about high school in his rant, and I understand why. Because the diatribe against people like me for wearing skimpy outfits and at the men who enjoy it is just as stupid as all the insults I heard in high school. And just like in high school, I know I should not care what these people think. And just like in high school, knowing that does not really help.
The trouble isn't the one guy I've never met complaining about it, or the thousands of guys I've never met going 'right ON!' It's that nagging worry, from all those early years of being an ugly duckling, that this is what many people I do know think of me, only they have the common decency not to say it.
*sigh*
But that is my problem.
Mostly, I think that it's fine if people don't like dressing up and don't like it when other people do. Personally, I don't like football or drinking or gardening or any of a thousand other hobbies. Other people don't need to like mine. But it would be awfully nice if they could let me enjoy mine in peace.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 05:38 pm (UTC)I hope you continue to play dress up. It is good for adults to play and most of us forget how.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 06:40 pm (UTC)I am going to keep playing dress-up. I am going to go thrifting again and get new pretty clothes to wear, and anyone who doesn't like it will just have to cope somehow.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-25 05:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-28 02:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 05:39 pm (UTC)That's fine, I have my male friends who appreciate I can rattle off the latest changes in WoW or geek out about the latest Alistair Reynolds novel or talk Pokemon with them.
The costume thing I can't relate to, because I actively hate people looking at/paying attention to me. But it smacks of slut-shaming and control to me, that women must present themselves in a way that's acceptable to certain men. And if you're overweight, forget it! You can't enjoy yourself, you must hide away in shame!
Fuck 'em, do what you want. :D
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 06:53 pm (UTC)Not that any of the posters I was reacting to were making that argument. :6
And the whole 'real geek' thing is just GRR.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 06:32 pm (UTC)Almost made me upset, for I, if they were to judge, would pretty much suit the first two posters' image of a female geek wannabe: I'm not particulatly educated in things like comics, genre fiction or even anime (I have some basic knowledge thereof, but, as I self-consciously suspect all the time, not far above average) but have a genuine interest for this kind of stuff and would really like to get into it (including, gasp, cosplay); AND as a heterosexual girl am attracted to geeks more than to any other type of male beings... on, ahem, a lot of levels (sounds funny, but it's true and was confirmed by practice). I try to stick around geeky people most of whom naturally happen to be male primarly to help fulfill my first desire, but if asked wouldn't deny the second urge, i.e. willing to make friends and hopefully find a partner in the crowd I'm most drawn to. (I hope I don't have to explain there is no sadistic 'gosh those pathetic losers are so funny to cocktease lol' motivation behind my liking, especially since most of the time I feel like the biggest loser myself.) I wonder what those nice gentlemen would say about me - nothing flattering, I suppose. Because how can a female be honestly attracted to a comic-, sci-fi-, fantasy- and so on loving individual? She must be hiding something! She must be considering the poor guy an easy plaything of her sadistic fantasy/brainless lust! The FIEND!
On the other hand, knowing their deep resentment for the vile women wanting to seduce them with their craftily feigned "geeky" looks and skimpy cosplay and false adulation while being all fake and geek-hating inside, I could easily brush them off by saying: "Oh, don't you worry, I sure as heck ain't gonna seduce YOU. You, sir, are totally safe from my hideous lecherous schemes, so please don't waste your disdain on me. And if it's that important to you, YES, I do think you're a pathetic loser - but most likely not for the reasons you think I do".
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 07:06 pm (UTC)*cracks up*
The whole 'geek-cred' thing is a separate rant, and Scalzi covered it better than I can. I love geekdom and I want to share it with everyone who has any interest in it whatsoever, regardless of depth or breadth of knowledge. Being able to speak Klingon or recite the names of everyone who's ever been a member of the X-Men is cool, but it doesn't make one a better geek. You are very welcome in my tribe as you are. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 08:49 pm (UTC)Thank you ^_^ Sorry if it looked like I was seeking for any sort of justification, I don't want to seem manipulative - but thank you, your words consoled me greatly <3
Speaking closer to the subject of your post, I find it hard to say anything valuable - I mean, what can I add to such a personal confession beyond expressing my support? An appropriate answer would be sharing my own experience - but I haven't actually cosplayed nor played 'dress-up' (not even in the terms of fursuiting, which I'd like to try), so I've got nothing to say here. I can only say I feel very sorry for what you had to deal with in high school. It's a shame some past douchebags' insults make you feel bad and suspicious years after :( If only soul wounds healed as quick as the flesh ones... Or the people who make them understood they don't.
(Oh, cripes, I suck at comforting =__=)
no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:36 am (UTC)And I don't mind you sharing your perspective on the issue -- your take was pretty entertaining. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 07:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 01:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 07:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 01:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 07:27 pm (UTC)-The Gneech, big believer in people doing whatever it is they love to do
no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 01:42 am (UTC)Although sometimes I do get discouraged. :/
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 07:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 01:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:56 am (UTC)I think you could do that a few pieces at a time. I'd rig the head as an opera-style half-mask attached to horns. Maybe pick up something like this half-mask as a base and these horns with a little fairing in via papier mache and painting. The bunny ears could be faux fur folded over a bit and attached to a headband that would help hold the mask on, as well as distributing the weight from the ears.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 09:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 12:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 01:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 03:51 am (UTC)Because I guarantee that whatever it is you like or love or hold holy or just consider innocent fun, you can find a community online that thinks it sucks. That thinks it is not only affected and pretentious and jejune, but bad for children and nursing mothers and society in general And that can muster many withering arguments to that effect.
If these people are e-mailing your or spamming your board, that's one thing. If they are harassing you in person or through phone calls or the mail, that's another, and worse. But from everything you've said, it seems all they're doing is mouthing off about their dumbass opinions on an Internet forum, which...everyone does from time to time, about one thing and another.
Which doesn't make their opinions more right or reading them any less depressing. I know: I see people and things I believe in badmouthed all the time. And it sucks. It hurts.
But you know what? You can walk away. It's not like high school where you are legally obliged to put up with these assholes in the same physical space day after day. You're a grownup in a grownup world and you can keep the company you choose. In the grownup world, THEY'RE the ones off in the corner of the lunchroom arguing obscure points of geeky aesthetics. You're the cool kid, free to roam the halls and get lots of compliments on how well you dress.
Let 'em talk. They've condemned you to a life of style and popularity. Serves you right.
--Skarl the Drummer
no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:41 pm (UTC)...
Teenage-me is convinced that adult-me is a logical impossibility. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 06:09 am (UTC)And I'm with gavinfox... dressed up Rowyn? Yes please. *hides*
no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 06:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-16 07:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-16 01:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 12:23 pm (UTC)Some things are exciting enough that fear never crosses one's mind.
I don't which box (if either) dressup does (or should) sit in for you.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 02:45 pm (UTC)I don't know either. That's a very interesting way to look at it.
It's ... almost more like taking off the normal mask and being the real person, than it is like putting on a mask to become a fantasy person.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-16 03:17 am (UTC)Taking off the mask sounds like something you have to be fearless to do.
But safe space of the convention means there's no fear of consequences for day-to-day life.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-16 03:31 am (UTC)As long as you're not breaking any ordinances or convention rules, or anything like that, isn't that just part of the fun of a convention?
I'd never heard of this controversy before.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-16 01:12 pm (UTC)But it all seems to roll into the same package of "are you really a woman?" and "then you're not really a geek" or "that picture isn't really you" or ... I don't know. Geeks are not allowed to be female and sexy and anyone who appears to be all three must not really be one or more of those things. v_v