Goal vs Means

[rowyn]

[Poll #1763592][Poll #1763593]
If you answered 'no' to either question, I would be very happy to hear your reasons.

I know that these scenarios are ridiculous; I am not 100% convinced about pretty much anything in my life.  But I am curious if anyone finds the non-economic reasons for these things (and ones certainly exist!) to be compelling even in the absence of economic benefit.  I tend to look at reasons like "high taxes on the rich are akin to stealing and therefore wrong" or "the rich benefit most from social order and therefore should pay more" as less 'sufficient justification by themselves' than as an explanation of why one system or the other would be better from a total economic perspective. I am curious whether or not others feel the same way.

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Comments

[djinni.livejournal.com]

I am not very rich, but want to contribute a fair amount, and I'm all for whatever actually is a fair amount, as long as it benefits everyone. My state doesn't have an income tax, but collects sales taxes which act like a flat tax, so that percentage of my income isn't lowered for me because of my lower income, but on the other hand, my state also has some programs that have helped me to afford medical care.

I don't believe that hard work is the only factor in becoming extremely wealthy. Many people work very hard their whole lives and never break out of poverty. It has a huge element of luck, and a huge element of the right opportunities and connections, and does involve reaping a benefit from society, including from many people who aren't as rich and won't get to be. So, I feel that it's fair for everyone to pay taxes and that those taxes benefit the rich and poor, both. My brother feels like it's robbing the rich to ask them to pay taxes for social programs they don't need. I'm not an economist, so I don't really feel qualified to talk about it beyond my own opinion on the matter. It's a tough issue, because when you're poor, you're looking at "will I have enough money to survive, and will there be programs that can help me to afford to go to a doctor", and emotionally, it feels like the rich are saying they're harmed by having to pay taxes instead of buying luxury items, when other people are struggling to have enough to eat. But, I buy luxury items, too, and I'm far from fantastically wealthy, and everyone should be able to spend money on things they want, if they've earned that money. I don't know. The whole issue is pretty upsetting to me, to be honest. I wish I knew the fair answers.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Reliance on sales tax means than the people who pay the highest percentage of their money in taxes are those whose money gets spent - all or almost all of it, no savings - and those who do not have enough money to spend it or save it outside of that jurisdiction. So sales taxes disproportionately hurt the poor.

As for robbing the rich to pay for social programs: if those social programs aren't there, the poor still need to eat, so they generally turn to crime, and guess who they're stealing from? It's cheaper to pay for subsidized housing, food stamps, and welfare, than it is to cut that person off and make them live on charity or have them turn to crime.

[rowyn]

My state has both income and sales taxes. *sigh* I wish the government would pick ONE THING -- sales, income, real estate, WHATEVER -- and tax that, instead of taxing a bazillion different things in a bazillion different ways each with their own accompanying forms and exceptions and requirements. It's hard to believe this is the best way to do it. x.x

I do feel that the "taxes are a form of robbery" is essentially true, and it's true regardless of whether or not you directly benefit from government. OTOH, not having a government is much worse, so I don't see any rational alternative. But I am not so much concerned with whether taxes are 'fair' than whether they work -- whether they produce a system that provides the maximum benefit to the people. And by "system", I don't just mean the services that government provides directly, but the services and wealth that the private sector generates. I want the balance point to be the point where we're making the absolute most of both sectors.