Game Notion

[rowyn]

ursulav made a teeny post featuring the painting title from a dream: "Two Ninjas Negotiating With An Earth Elemental To Buy Gravity." (never seen in the dream, sadly).

Now I want to do a magic system based on the premise of magic-users licensing from various elemental beings the right to use, abuse, and violate natural laws.

Comments

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

That kind of reminds me of:
(a) augustforth's maginaria (although it's more paying the elementals to break them on your behalf, and not licensing the rights)
(b) Nobilis, which is the epic struggle to save the universe from the RIAA. Or, well, from beings outside the universe who own the IP used to create it, and are trying to take it back one concept at a time.

[rowyn]

Hee! The Nobilis concept sounds pretty fun.

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

Would it be corporate-style elementals or 'you owe us your SOUL' type spirits though? Or maybe 'Sure, a favor for a favor' a la Dr. Strange, when he finally got all those favors called in... Simultaneously.

[rowyn]

I don't think "your SOUL!"-type spirits, although I'm inclined to make negotiating with them quirky. Like sometimes you could trade seemingly worthless things for significant licenses, while other licenses might be priced in more normal-looking ways.

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

I riffed off of an Aynjel story concept once: someone who traded her self-respect for a cigarette lighter and a box of cigarettes ... It seemed like an interesting concept to me, a Goblin Market where you find out what seemed unimportant to you, can turn out to be surprisingly important after all. I wish I could read Aynjel's full story take on the idea. I aborted my own take on the concept, since she seemed unhappy with that.

[rowyn]

Yes, I like that concept, too. I've seen variants on it elswhere: I remember a Twilight Zone episode that had people in a shop of lost traits, looking for things like their sense of humor, or integrity. "Book of Secrets" had demons that would trade power in return for memories. "Just one little memory of a sunny afternoon ...." I liked that one because it really did seem like a small thing, taken one at a time, but it adds up. >:)

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

I think the fun part was in figuring out what the character would do, with a key inhibition removed. Sort of, 'hmm, what happens if you take out the safety governor?'

I'm not sure I'd enjoy reading the results of removing someone's sense of humor, or integrity... But removing their restraint?

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

no sense of humor = straight man
no integrity = scoundrel

Seems like you could have fun writing about either of those.

Really, though, a character crippled by removing the capacity for anything in particular is going to be crippled the same as if they'd sold an arm and a leg, and there's a certain amount of un-fun inherent in reading about cripples that the story has to overcome.

...and now I'm thinking about some sort of alien market where the communication isn't perfect, so it's hard to be sure what you're trading.
"I will trade this to you in return for your *untranslateable*."
"My what?"
"Yes, your what!"
"What will happen to me if I make that trade?"
"Yes! So, trade?"

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

Well, the straight man is often the subject of humor, but I think he has to be able to appreciate the humor in order to truly participate, otherwise it starts to feel like picking on someone who can't hit back.

A scoundrel, maybe... I was thinking conscience-less, closer to evil - sell people out. As odd as it may seem, I view people like Slippery Jim (the Stainless Steel Rat of Harry Harrison's books) being not without integrity, but possessed of a more flexible moral code. There are lines they won't cross.

You might be right, re: the character being crippled by a lack of self-respect, as much as anything else. I dunno, maybe it's worth digging the story up and filing off the serial numbers.

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

I think to be conscience-less you'd have to sell your conscience. No integrity means no one could ever trust you to keep your word or follow any sort of rules, but that doesn't mean you'd suddenly NOT feel bad if someone you cared about got hurt.

But right, there wouldn't be any line you wouldn't cross if you thought it was a good idea, and a lot of people probably have a bunch of psychotic behavior just waiting for a lack of integrity to slip out and cause horrific damage.

Thieves and Kings put it like (paraphrased 'cause I don't remember it exactly), "A thief follows no rules, which means that he has to be extra careful that he's doing the right thing. If anyone else causes harm they can fall back on 'I did everything I was supposed to' or 'I was just doing what I was told', but a thief has no one to blame but himself for the consequences of his actions."

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

I like the quote. Wasn't Thieves and Kings a B&W comic from the 80s-90s?

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Well, the 90s maybe, although I didn't start reading it 'till the 2000s and it was still putting out new issues until a couple years ago, when it sort of trailed off. I don't think it ever officially ended.

[rowyn]

That is an interesting take on it. Pretty much the "chaotic good" view, I suppose, but I hadn't heard it phrased that way. So integrity is what makes you follow the rules even when you don't want to? I think integrity is also what keeps people from taking bribes ... I'm not sure how that'd fit in. It works, I think -- integrity is deciding to do things the right and difficult way, instead of the easy way that probably won't cause (much) harm.

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Well, that's one kind of chaotic good anyway -- although there's also the 'must free everyone from rules!' kind.

And it's certainly chaotic to not value integrity, whether or not you have it yourself.

Hee. Lazy chaos == no integrity. Lazy law == no critical thinking. Lazy good == no self respect?

[rowyn]

So the story could have one character who'd traded off each thing? :)

[rowyn]

Allow me to vote for digging up the story and filing off the serial numbers! I always wanted to read the rest of that. :)

[rowyn]

Ooo, I like the "we're not quite sure what we're trading" angle. Especially if it cuts both ways, and the aliens don't really know what they're getting either. :)

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I take classes in that sort of thing. Approximately.

[rowyn]

Your people have the negotiations part down to a science. :)

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

That's how you'd want it, isn't it? If you cheat gods, they probably cheat you back, worse.

[rowyn]

If I lived there, certainly! If I'm just writing about it, not necessarily. The setting of a story has to be interesting, but it needn't be comfortable.. >:)

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

It will certainly be more exotic and fanciful if it's not.

[The lizard has a rather limited point of view here. -bb]