How Not to Convert People to Your Cause

[rowyn]

Sigh.

I suppose it's not quite as horrible as picketing the funerals of servicemen, but rampaging through a church service is the exact opposite of a persuasive argument, and acting like spoiled children is only going to give ammunition to the people who oppose your cause. Blah.

Comments

[octantis.livejournal.com]

People like this are an embarrassment to everyone else sharing their cause. I hope nobody thinks everyone advocating gay rights is like this.

Even in cases where a vigorous response is called for, there are ways of doing it eloquently and in a thought-provoking way... not just in a provocative way. Doing stuff like this convinces nobody and is a step backwards.

[chipuni.livejournal.com]

*rolls eyes*

That will do NOTHING for their cause.

[level-head.livejournal.com]

There's almost a "step-by-step instructions" feel from the reporter -- who was apparently part of the procession from the "center" to the church.

I would agree with your analysis.

And the other person you alluded to, regarding the funerals of servicemen, probably shares the same fringe politics except for the issue of gay rights.

In both cases, their styles of attention-getting are very poor choices, in my opinion.

===|==============/ Level Head

[verminiusrex.livejournal.com]

According to the Myspace.com page of the Lansing chapter, the network initially sprung up with the intent of increasing homosexual visibility within the anarchist community.

Anarchist groups don't tend to be very low key by their nature.

What annoys me is that when asked why this particular church was targeted, most of the protesters didn't know. For the love of frogs, know why the hell you are protesting, not just the cause but the particular location!

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Well, the point of this thing could be:

(a) Something really horrible JUST HAPPENED and we want to make sure people know we are angry about it and that it was important.

(b) We've given up on trying to convince these people and want to make their lives uncomfortable so that people will be afraid to join their side.

(c) We've suffered defeats lately and striking back would be a great morale booster and/or get more people to join our group who already agree with our cause.

(a) is the normal protest motivation, (b) is the motivation behind things like picketing abortion clinics. I have no idea what these people were thinking unless something anti-gay just passed in Michigan?

[circuit-four.livejournal.com]

Psychologically, this makes a whole ton of sense. This is a GREAT reaction, if you're living in trees and most of your enemies stop to groom each other for hours a day. Running through their settlement, hooting and swinging a real big tapir bone feels pretty good, and gets your point across: you are not good targets.

Unfortunately, the same wetware makes us feel just as good 10 million years later. And now we're gifted and cursed with this whole "language" things which lets us complicate the issue enormously, sometimes closer to reality, sometimes further away. And there's still that raw and immediate need to feel strong again while a threat's nearby. But it's not gonna do them a damn bit of good, and that's very sad -- both its futility, and for the failure to recognize these urges for the crossed signal they are.

[detroitfather.livejournal.com]

Nothing was on the ballot this year in Michigan (only Medical Marijuana and Stem Cell Research, both of which passed).

I think it is Prop 8 related.



There is a national-level protest scheduled for Nov 15.

[the-vulture.livejournal.com]

*shakes head* You get a bunch in every crowd...

[ladyperegrine.livejournal.com]

I just keep thinking of the churchpeople being so >surprised!< and confused over these crazed rainbow flag-wielding people interrupting the service, and it almost makes me want to giggle over the surreality (if that's a word) and absurdity of it all. Even though in the larger picture, tears are probably more apropos - if the church didn't think gay people were a bunch of raving lunatics before, well, they do now...

[whitefangedwolf.livejournal.com]

(b) We've given up on trying to convince these people and want to make their lives uncomfortable so that people will be afraid to join their side.

(c) We've suffered defeats lately and striking back would be a great morale booster and/or get more people to join our group who already agree with our cause.

Unfortunately, their actions might stir up an opposing reaction; "Hey, that cause is made up of morons. I'm staying away from them."

[rowyn]

I admit I wrote this post by way of saying "They're not with me, k?" Because ... yuck. :(

[rowyn]

I don't know that they'd have much in common with Fred Phelps. O_o I offered him up because their tactics remind me of his. Curiously, I don't like those tactics any better when they're employed nominally for a cause I support.

Actually, I like them even less. Because I think Phelps is making allies for the side he opposes, and I expect Bash Back is having the same reverse effect. :/

[rowyn]

What, "because all my friends are" isn't a good enough reason?

[rowyn]

I'd have more sympathy for motives (b) and (c) if I thought it would actually work. I support gay rights and these guys are definitely not winning me to their group. And making me miserable like this would only strengthen my resolve if I'd been opposed in the first place.

I guess it might be raising awareness, but making people aware that your own group is full of jerks doesn't sound like a useful strategy either. :6

[rowyn]

Yeah, that's what I expect, too. Not that it makes it any better.

[rowyn]

It's sure not doing anything for my morale.

[rowyn]

Yeah, I suppose it made them feel good. "Look, we're doing something!" It just makes me feel sad. ;_;

[rowyn]

It is kind of a funny mental image, when you describe it like that. Especially since the "infilitrators" were dressed in suits. Like something from a Monty Python sketch ....

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they went too far with the fire alarms and stuff, I think. If they'd just picketed they could have made the churchgoers uncomfortable without, you know, *actually breaking the law*, and might have looked more sympathetic. Assuming the church was somehow a legitimate target.

I'm not sure protests work very well in America in general anymore, though -- the spirit of revolution that makes them effective is pretty weak. Too many people think 'oh god, they're acting like whiny idiots' instead of getting caught up in righteous indignation or whatever.

[rowyn]

Yeah, picketing is sort of ineffectual, but at least it's not directly counter-productive.

[ladyperegrine.livejournal.com]

That was my thought exactly! Like something from Monty Python...

[verminiusrex.livejournal.com]

Not with my friends. Some of them are dumbasses.