Terror

[rowyn]

Getting just what they wanted.

"CNN also has obtained an al Qaeda document that spells out the terrorist group's plan to separate Spain from the U.S.-led coalition on Iraq.
...
"The strategy spelled out in the document calls for using terrorist attacks to oust Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Partido Popular from power and replace it with the Socialists.
...
"'We think the Spanish government will not stand more than two blows, or three at the most, before it will be forced to withdraw because of the public pressure on it,' the al Qaeda document says.
...
"the Socialists unseat[ed] the Popular Party three days after near-simultaneous bombings of four trains killed 200 and shocked the nation.
...
"Prime Minister-elect Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said Monday he wants the 1,300 Spanish troops in Iraq to return home by June 30 if the United Nations 'doesn't take control of Iraq.'

"'I think Spain's participation in the war has been a total error,' he said."

I feel sick.

Comments

Sorry, but couldn't avoid that issue

[telnar.livejournal.com]

I know that you said that you didn't want to get into the question of whether our support for Israel was wise, but it goes to the core of whether we can reasonably expect to win a short run battle for the hearts and minds of those in the Arab world who oppose us.

The problem as I see it is that Arab opposition to Israel isn't geopolitics. It represents hard core hatred. The snippets that I've seen from secondary school curriculums in the Palestinian Authority and in Arab countries are extremely anti-Semitic and include libels that the authors almost certainly knew were false (a recent Egyptian television program, for example, claimed that Passover Matzoth required human blood as an ingredient). News is routinely spun in a massive way by the state controlled press in the region (and Al-Jazera is far from friendly to Israel as well). Attempts to kill Israeli civilians are seen as heroic. A June 2002 poll of West Bank and Gaza residents by the Palestinian Jerusalem Media and Communication Center found that 51% of respondents think that the goal of the intifada should be "liberating all of historic Palestine" (i.e. including Israel proper).

The only nation that I can think of which took close to as much criticism was South Africa under apartheid (and even there, the intensity of the critics didn't rise to the post 1967 criticism of Israel until the 1980s). Yet Israel has a better human rights record than any equally threatened country I can name in history. It's true that Switzerland doesn't make some of the mistakes and moral compromises that Israel does in fighting the intifada, but it also doesn't have to confront those decisions. Look at how much the American attitude towards the trade off between civil rights and security changed after 9/11 for a sense of what we might have done if we faced the far greater threat that Israel lives with.

If this were a question of geopolitics, then we could consider shifting our position marginally to one which was more balanced and perceptions of us would change accordingly. Unfortunately, I think that the US's well know commitment to Israel having a right to exist is seen by many on "the Arab street" as a problem in itself.

Re: Sorry, but couldn't avoid that issue

[elusivetiger.livejournal.com]

Isn't it the truth. It is PC to suggest that Israel is equally guilty in their dealings with the Palestinians, who are themselves oppressed not by Israel but by their own militant gang of Islamic "leaders". If it weren't for the brutal, senseless tactics of the PLO these people would all have exactly what they want, peace and a sense of identity. The Palestinian leadership, not by any stretch the people themselves, have polarized the Israelis and forced them to act, yet they still don't stoop to the level of their enemy and deliberately target civilians.

This is the approach of the Islamic states - their own people are cattle, suitable for suicidal runs into the enemy's territory while they sit on the sidelines and stir the pot, spreading lie after lie about the Israeli agenda. And this is why they have no moral authority of any sort to lead even their own people, let alone have a say in the governance of others. They are the worst element in any society, and the true Islamic leaders need to do everything in their power to stop this representation of their religion, this obscene distortion of their beliefs.

Re: Sorry, but couldn't avoid that issue

[makovette.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to say thanks to Telnar and Postrodent for the very interesting and excellently written dialog above.

Good, thought provoking ideas, it makes for most excellent reading.

Thanks,
Mako